My conversation with Katie Faust left me wrestling with uncomfortable truths about how we've reorganized society around adult desires rather than children's needs.
As the founder of Them Before Us, Katie isn't just another voice in the culture wars—she's a strategic thinker who has identified the root cause of family breakdown and developed a framework for fighting back.
The Revolutionary Question
Katie introduced me to what she calls "the one tool" for evaluating any family decision: Who is doing the hard thing in this scenario? This question cuts through all the emotional manipulation and gets to the heart of every family policy debate.
In struggling marriages, either parents do hard things like therapy and accountability, or children do hard things like split homes and divided loyalties. In infertility situations, either adults pursue restorative medicine, or children created in laboratories get discarded as "surplus."
The brilliance of this framework is its universality. It applies equally to the progressive couple choosing surrogacy and the conservative couple pursuing IVF. Every adult gets held to the same standard: Is it them before us, or us before them?
Beyond the Culture War
What struck me most was Katie's distinction between justice and empathy. In policy matters, justice must take precedence—we determine what's right for children and hold that line. But in personal relationships, empathy and compassion are appropriate. This explains why she can love her mother who's been in a same-sex relationship for 40 years while simultaneously fighting to overturn gay marriage in court.
This nuanced approach challenges the common evangelical tendency to either weaponize truth without love or compromise truth for the sake of peace. Katie demonstrates that you can be both principled and pastoral, depending on the context.
The Legal Revolution Coming
Perhaps most remarkable is Katie's revelation about her three-pronged strategy to challenge Obergefell. Unlike previous attempts that focused on adult religious liberty or states' rights, her approach centers entirely on children's rights—an angle no major organization has attempted. She's assembled a coalition spanning every major conservative outlet and has Jeff Shafer leading the legal strategy.
This isn't just symbolic resistance. It's a serious legal effort that could actually succeed by reframing marriage as a matter of justice for children rather than adult fulfillment. The fact that gay marriage support among Republicans has already dropped from 51% to 44% suggests the cultural ground is shifting.
The Christian Calling
Katie's challenge to the church resonated deeply. She pointed out that throughout history, Christian influence in any country produced two consistent results: "piss off adults and protect children." We built orphanages, confronted infanticide, ended foot binding, and established child labor laws. Our heritage is child protection, not adult affirmation.
Yet somehow we've inverted this priority. We've made our primary goal being "welcoming and affirming" to adults rather than defending children's fundamental rights. Katie's work reminds us that our Savior came as an embryo, dignifying children in ways no other religion ever did.
Key Moments
[08:10] The "one tool" for family decisions explained
[15:28] Christian responsibility to protect children first
[19:37] Justice vs empathy distinction in different spheres
[29:12] Strategy to challenge gay marriage revealed
[35:54] No-fault divorce as original marriage redefinition
[42:09] Legal consequences of marriage redefinition
[46:04] Katie's personal origin story begins
[52:32] Warren Farrell and sociological data manipulation
Key Insights
Either adults do the hard thing or children do the hard thing in every family situation
Natural rights exist pre-government, require no provision, and everyone gets equal measure
Marriage redefinition weakened every parent's legal claim to their biological children
Christianity's cultural role has always been child protection, not adult comfort
Policy requires justice as primary goal; relationships require empathy as primary response
Gay marriage created "intent-based parenthood" that commodifies children
Notable Quotes
"A just society will empathize with adults who are struggling, but draw a far, draw a hard red line in the sand saying, just because you have the feelings does not mean children should be victimized so you can have what you want."
"We have gotten to this bizarre place in our culture today where we think that the Christians' primary relationship with the culture is to be welcoming and affirming of adults. False."
"When adult desire is king, children will always be the required sacrifice."
"You don't know how crooked a stick is until you lay a straight stick next to it."
"Children belong to their own mother and to their own father. It's on that basis that we have parental rights, but it's also on that basis that we say children can't be commodified, distributed and sold like common objects."
"Either the adults will do the hard thing or the children will do the hard thing. A just society says, it's us. We're the ones that are going to sacrifice."
Connect with Katy Faust
THEM BEFORE US SUBSTACK:
KATY FAUST SUBSTACK:
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Katie Faust represents something rare in our current moment: a principled fighter who refuses to compromise children's welfare for adult comfort, regardless of which adults are affected.
Her work challenges all of us to examine whether we're truly putting them before us.
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